Curse

AeroLion · Aug 25, 2005, 04:11 PM // 16:11

I'm not using bad PUGs as an excuse for the 105/55 build. I'm saying the benefits of soloing, bad PUGS included, outweigh the benefits of partying in PVE. I'm saying this is why we see the farming builds, the 105/55 build in particular, become popular quickly. I'm saying this is the real cause. If you and your whole party got the same amount of XP, the same amount of gold, the same amount of drops as when you were out there by yourself, wouldn't that put a decisive end to most of the soloing/farming out there?

c h a v e z · Aug 25, 2005, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

And about adding enchantment removal everywhere... I'm getting rather tired of being chilblain'ed at every corner already on non-enchantment heavy characters.

sounds like someone is getting mad his mending keeps getting taken off. Also I never said make disenchants massive everywhere, I just said have enough of them so if 1 person goes in by himself they will all get removed because he is they only person to target. If you go in with 8 people your not going to feel the same level of disenchantment because there are 8 targets. Also there is another lession to be learned here, dont rely on all enchantments, if you arent then you should not run into a problem in the first place.

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 25, 2005, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroLion

I'm not using bad PUGs as an excuse for the 105/55 build. I'm saying the benefits of soloing, bad PUGS included, outweigh the benefits of partying in PVE. I'm saying this is why we see the farming builds, the 105/55 build in particular, become popular quickly. I'm saying this is the real cause. If you and your whole party got the same amount of XP, the same amount of gold, the same amount of drops as when you were out there by yourself, wouldn't that put a decisive end to most of the soloing/farming out there?

agreed. A fact I use to counter the argument that anets inaction on protbond proves its not an abuse. Perhaps before they take away the monkroaches lollypop, they are trying to address the fact that theres not enough incentive to group.

Teklord · Aug 25, 2005, 04:17 PM // 16:17

The benefits of soloing very much outweigh that of partying (purely in the loot sense). If loot and xp were not divided amongst people in a part and was equal with that of soloing then yes there would be no need for the solo builds that exist. Wouldn't put a decisive end to farming itself though, as it would become far easier to do so in groups. There will always be farming of some sort or another, however this is not entirely bad.

Theos · Aug 25, 2005, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroLion

I'm not using bad PUGs as an excuse for the 105/55 build. I'm saying the benefits of soloing, bad PUGS included, outweigh the benefits of partying in PVE. I'm saying this is why we see the farming builds, the 105/55 build in particular, become popular quickly. I'm saying this is the real cause. If you and your whole party got the same amount of XP, the same amount of gold, the same amount of drops as when you were out there by yourself, wouldn't that put a decisive end to most of the soloing/farming out there?

I will agree with this, though exp I like sharing as it goes with credit for the kill

. The rest can be multiplied xNumber of Players. That be nice.

Igedit · Aug 25, 2005, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroLion

If you and your whole party got the same amount of XP, the same amount of gold, the same amount of drops as when you were out there by yourself, wouldn't that put a decisive end to most of the soloing/farming out there?

Precisely. The problem is, how do you do this?

That's what I would like to see suggestions/debates on.

AeroLion · Aug 25, 2005, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it works like this: each monster has x XP, y drops, and z gold. x XP is then divided up into how many players are on the team, z gold falls to the ground and is then split up into the party once picked up, and one of the y drops is assigned to one of the party members.

So a solo player gets the best of everything. I think what it should do when a monster dies is make it so that x XP and z gold is given to each member of the party. One of y drops would be assigned to each member of the party, with common drops in y drops fall more often so as to avoid an absurdly high amount of rare drops falling.

Let me know if clarification is needed on the "y drops" part. It might be kind of confusing.

Algren Cole · Aug 25, 2005, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroLion

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it works like this: each monster has x XP, y drops, and z gold. x XP is then divided up into how many players are on the team, z gold falls to the ground and is then split up into the party once picked up, and one of the y drops is assigned to one of the party members.

So a solo player gets the best of everything. I think what it should do when a monster dies is make it so that x XP and z gold is given to each member of the party. One of y drops would be assigned to each member of the party, with common drops in y drops fall more often so as to avoid an absurdly high amount of rare drops falling.

Let me know if clarification is needed on the "y drops" part. It might be kind of confusing.

then you'd completely through the common denominator(difficulty) out the window. XP is split because it's easier to kill the monster the more people you have. The fewer people the lower the split is. Not that I have a problem with this...but it does change game dynamics.

Cameela · Aug 25, 2005, 04:41 PM // 16:41

There are quite a few dumb people everywhere doing anything they want. Case in point is forum, guild wars, people in my class at UCF, people at my work, people driving while reading newspaper and talking on cellphone, people buying SUV when gas prices keep going up and they are single with no cargo whatsoever to haul around, rednecks with rebel flags shouting at black people, george bush jr, people who make fun of michael jackson, this guy who tried to sell me pot at the grocery store. In fact the only smart people are animal-people. Like squirrels and cats.

Monks made to be corny farmers, why do you care. Don't group with them if you don't want to. Don't look at them if you don't want to see them swarming around. Ruins game, bullshit. There is more in this game that ruins it then people making monks to get money with. If these people want to level to 20 just to farm (since their first character is no good, or whatever reasoning they can come up with) then I believe they should be allowed to do so.

Scarabs and Dryders use chilibans which will kill any of these monks. My E/me can kill these and they cannot. Woop de do.

Back to people being dumb, so what. If you would stop treating them as stupid retards, but more like actually people who breath and think and feel, then maybe you wouldn't sink yourself BELOW being dumb and actually rise up to become a better person.

IMO If you complain about somebody being retarded, then YOU are the retard. Its one thing to point out someone being a touch slow-witted, its another thing to make fun of somebody being less fortunate than yourself. This is what nobody seems to understand.

Personally I find if somebody is not behaving correctly in a PUG, simply talking to them in a clear and polite manner will sometimes sway them into taking your lead, or perhaps just informing them a little on how to properly complete the mission as a team. I find that when these people argue they are correct and WTF screw yourself, it is not a "retard" but one of you "leet" stupid jerks trying to be leet and to hell with everyone, even if it causes the whole mission to fail.

Case in point: W/mo in Iron Mines. Runs ahead of everybody, calls us all noobs for not doing enough damage and for not knowing this mission. Strangely enough, some of our group had done this mission three or four times before. So we get to Evennia and he runs her into the mursat. Good job Leet jerk. Way to show leet = retarded.

So basically, if you aren't here to enjoy your game which you or your parents had to dish out hard earned moola to get, then go around being a leet-jerk and mouth off to everybody, call everybody morons and dopes, tell them what they are doing wrong with WTF OMG NOOB. If you are here to enjoy your game, then stop trying to force people into having your fun. Not everybody wants to follow in the footsteps of leet idiocy. Some players ARE actually new to the game and being a jerk to them won't help them continue playing. Some of them haven't played 600+ hours yet. Some of them do not know the current mission. Some of them do not know many things. If you yell at them, I consider you a problem worse then being new. You are quite essentially the factor of this game which kills it. People too good for everybody, but forgetting that you and these "retards" you have to deal with are actually playing the same god damn game together for whatever reasons and you both enjoy it.

Of course, all is said in vain. I know, its one of the harsh realities of the world. Good changes can't start with other people, it has to start with yourself, no? And any rude comments, I have only one answer:

WHATEVER!

Nikita Firestorm · Aug 25, 2005, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theos

The benefits of soloing very much outweigh that of partying (purely in the loot sense). If loot and xp were not divided amongst people in a part and was equal with that of soloing then yes there would be no need for the solo builds that exist. Wouldn't put a decisive end to farming itself though, as it would become far easier to do so in groups. There will always be farming of some sort or another, however this is not entirely bad.

Yes good idea.

It's unfair to people who are doing it alone of course, but the areas were designed for groups, so those people should shut up and find a group.
And as there's so many people who think PUG's suck, they could easily group with those people.

And instead of wining about the fact that it would be unfair, they should ask for areas that are disigned for soloing, and can only be done soloing.
Those areas should be a bit harder (compared to how difficult a group area is for an intermediate group), but would also give better drops than you would get in a group area.

Silmor · Aug 25, 2005, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by c h a v e z

sounds like someone is getting mad his mending keeps getting taken off. Also I never said make disenchants massive everywhere, I just said have enough of them so if 1 person goes in by himself they will all get removed because he is they only person to target. If you go in with 8 people your not going to feel the same level of disenchantment because there are 8 targets. Also there is another lession to be learned here, dont rely on all enchantments, if you arent then you should not run into a problem in the first place.

I'm not talking about mending, I'm talking about things like Conjures, Armor of Earth, Aura of Restoration, Channeling. I can assure you that my monk has absolutely no trouble killing packs of critters using Chilblains, she just lets them rip off Divine Boon time and time again since they all take turns. It's not stopping farming as much as it's dumbing down play for casual players. This isn't a team killer, I never claimed that, but being denied casual enchantments in a build just because some people use enchantments irresponsibly kills off fun and variety for the wrong reasons, I think.

Yamat · Aug 25, 2005, 06:19 PM // 18:19

We had an invinci-monk in our PUG going skill capping in mineral springs last night... she died so much that I couldn't res her any more!!!

As for PUGs, that was one of the absolute worst ever... we got owned in mineral springs... but the people were a good bunch so I stuck around and went through the whole kill one, all die, kill one, all die, kill one, cap skill, all die. You can do that place with henchies...

Invinci-monks are by no means invincible. I'm sure every one of us who have solo'd UW has died there. All it takes is a couple of interrupts on healing breeze when you're bleeding and it's all over... bonnetti's doesn't always save you.

Igedit · Aug 25, 2005, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

then you'd completely through the common denominator(difficulty) out the window. XP is split because it's easier to kill the monster the more people you have. The fewer people the lower the split is. Not that I have a problem with this...but it does change game dynamics.

I think the XP and gold would be taken care of pretty easily by scaling the mobs to the party size. Alot of other games do this.

The drops are more difficult to handle. I like the way items are reserved to prevent fighting over the good stuff, and am not sure how to handle this another way with real players.

One thing I would like is to be able to trade with henchman. Something like a one-for-one trade, say a staff for a staff, regardless of stats.

In my opinion, partying (with people and/or henchman) is just more fun and should be encouraged.

AeroLion · Aug 25, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

With Henchmen, I'm thinking there should be a way to actually hire them. As in, you pay them a set amount of gold as you add them to the party or you agree to split loot as it normally is. If you pay them, everything drops and it's for you or it's split from what I said above between player characters. I still see no reason why henchies should collect experience.

Scaling the size of mobs depending on the how many people are in the party, I think, is the balancing feature between what I want and the common denominator that Algren brought up.

Hopefully some other ideas will branch forth from this thread because, out of all the 105/55 threads, I think this is the most productive.

Igedit · Aug 25, 2005, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroLion

With Henchmen, I'm thinking there should be a way to actually hire them. As in, you pay them a set amount of gold as you add them to the party or you agree to split loot as it normally is. If you pay them, everything drops and it's for you or it's split from what I said above between player characters. I still see no reason why henchies should collect experience.

That's a great idea! I'd go for that.